17 Comments
User's avatar
sarah e webb's avatar

Within the context of 12 step recovery, and in the Big Book, it is often cited that at the root of an alcoholic’s drinking IS their thinking.

In order to change the behavior one must not over-rationalize/over-analyze the nature of their condition ie “think” this time it will be different.

Instead one must begin to do different/act different with the aid of other people in recovery (and belief in something higher or other than oneself), and through right action, one’s thinking will begin to change.

I could be wrong (and I often am) but as I understand it, this isn’t a blanket statement for all situations, but relates to the act of drinking or not drinking.

Expand full comment
Asha Sanaker's avatar

Thank you, Sarah! The healing/recovery scenario you describe makes perfect sense to me. And not all situations are going to work in the same way, for sure. But it is still, for me anyway, an interesting rabbit hole to climb down into, to contemplate how thinking and action interweave with each other and how that works (or doesn't) when considering "right" action, or acting in integrity (which I kind of figure is another way of saying that) generally.

Expand full comment
sarah e webb's avatar

absolutely, i couldn’t agree more!!

Expand full comment
Lisa Furst's avatar

I probably have to reflect more on this, but I know from my own personal experience that I have successfully used the “fake it till you make it” technique many times in order to shake up my perceptions of things.

Expand full comment
Asha Sanaker's avatar

I have lived by the fake it till you make it rule most of my life, truth be told.

Expand full comment
Abigail BT's avatar

While I recognise that experience and the perspective of hindsight can alter how I approach life going forward (leading to right thinking), I have created plenty of changes in my life through setting my intentions (thinking my way) towards right action.

I interpret the quote as you can't think your way to right action if you don't have your full self in on it.

Expand full comment
Michael E Simkin's avatar

If it is about something I need to spend money for I usually do a some mental debating about it first, often putting the purchase off for a few days at least if possible; Do I really need it, how much will it get used, do I already get along without it reasonably well, will it make my life a lot easier, can I build it to rather that buying it? For food items it may not be so much that way, but in some cases yes.

Expand full comment
Jan.munger@yahoo.com's avatar

Asha, it's been uncanny how your themes have aligned with my life since you've started this project. We have a lot of similarities in our life stories/journeys, but it's more than that. Funny that you posed this question. I just got off the phone with my retirement accounts advisor. At the beginning of this month I fell in love with a largely wooded 5 acre lot on an island in the South Sound (Puget Sound). I didn't ponder it. I didn't even really look closely into how I was going to pay for it. I just wanted to be able to be on this land and I just felt it would work out somehow. I made an offer and it was accepted. I was like, I don't care if I have to pay penalties to take money from my IRA, just want to do this. LOL. There's a reason people don't take money out of their IRA's early. It's a lot! Still glad I just went with my gut. I have this weekend to work on some other options. I am believing more and more in the importance of intuition lately- and the importance of honing that capacity.

Expand full comment
Asha Sanaker's avatar

How exciting! I'm so glad you're doing that! Maybe someday I'll make my way back West and can come visit your acreage. There is a lot to be said for listening to our intuition. I guess my follow up question is, how do intuition and integrity interact with each other, do you think?

Expand full comment
Jocelyn Lovelle's avatar

Ooooh, this is so juicy. I think, as other people have pointed out, that some situations may require more thinking before action: which computer should I buy for my needs vs buying 5 acres of land you are drawn to. This idea of intuition and integrity interacting though. I think so much of understanding what our own integrity is, how to act in it and be aligned with it, takes action, but it also takes mindfulness and awareness - action with intention. Intuition takes practice and a deep knowing of oneself and ones values. And yet, how to test our intuition other than to take leaps and move into action? I say all this outside of the context of the origins of the quote and outside of the recovery structure and process. 🙏

Expand full comment
Asha Sanaker's avatar

I like so much what you're saying here about honing our intuition, which requires trusting, leaping, moving, and then reflecting, assessing. I think it's probably better to think of the relationship between integrity and intuition as a dance where the leader and follower switches back and forth until both are well-practiced enough that there's no discernible leader or follower anymore. But that takes time, and as you say, intention.

Expand full comment
Jocelyn Lovelle's avatar

Ooooh. I like that so much. A dance between the two, I think that's exactly it. One informs the other on the path!

Expand full comment
Jackie Ralston's avatar

As a former cognitive psychologist, I freely admit that I'm biased. I vehemently disagree with the quotation. If it were true, there'd be no need for philosophy.

Expand full comment
Asha Sanaker's avatar

Say more about the cognitive psychologist take! This quote made me think about the differences between, say, Judaism and evangelical Christianity. In Judaism you find God through doing good works in the world (right action leading to right thinking... sort of), but in evangelical Christianity you have to find God (be saved) before you can go out to do Godly (good) work (right thinking leading to right action... also sort of.)

But I'd love to hear you say more about how you think this precludes philosophy.

Expand full comment
Jackie Ralston's avatar

At a pretty basic level, planning is a complex activity that involves trying to make the best decision in a specific context: it's thinking to identify and often refine what the "right" action is. But "right" (often taken to mean best) is context dependent and subjective across people involved; a decision to move for a better job could be great both professionally and personally for one partner, but career-destroying for the other partner.

In terms of the development of a sense of morality, it might appear that we first have to "act right" in order to develop "right thinking," but many psychologists would disagree with this. Lawrence Kohlberg, the first in the US to study and propose a theory of moral development, based it on children's intellectual development. (He also conceived of them as "universal moral principles," which is now understood as a flawed take.) Jean Piaget was ahead of his time in thinking that both thought and action guide the development of morality.

As to my sentence about philosophy, I need to apologize; I was in a hurry and wasn't clear. What I had in mind is that there'd be no need to think about and develop a personal philosophy of life, since doing so couldn't lead to improvements in "right action" (meaning more frequent and/or better right actions).

Expand full comment
Gloria Horton-Young's avatar

When it comes to making decisions, just thinking about things isn't enough. I have to actually do something to figure out what's right for me. Sure, thinking is vitally important, but it's through taking action that I truly learn and understand. By doing things, I get a better sense of the consequences and how my thoughts line up with reality. So, instead of getting stuck in my head, I attempt to embrace the power of doing and let my actions guide me towards better thinking. It's through the experience of doing that I hope to gain clarity and wisdom.

Expand full comment
Asha Sanaker's avatar

It sounds like what you’re talking about is embodied wisdom and YES to that! ❤️

Expand full comment